Agni
Agni: the holy fire
Agni is a reference to the fire-element, as well as the devatā who carries the same. Symbolizing one of the five base elements, some scholars have equated the worship of Agni to a more pre-hindu period where the worship mainly consisted of the visible elements of the universe such as water, earth, trees, air, etc. With that, some scholars have divided the various facets of God, such as Śiva, Gaṇeśa, Agni etc. into two groups of Vedic deities and Hindu deities thinking that with time the deities have changed their form or identity, or simply new names/Gods have come into existence in the minds of the population.
However this is not the case, as the traditions of India would agree that deities of the Rig Vedic period are the same as that of today, only their names may have changed slightly. I.e. in the Rig Veda the name Iṣa is used for Iśvara/ Śiva, and the name Gaṇapati is an obvious name for Gaṇeśa. Garutman has become Garuda today, and similar different names exist.
Agni has always been worshipped as Agni, and the worship of Agni has been constantly maintained by the Agni hotris, who specifically are Agni-worshippers, and more recently the Brahma and Arya Samaja’s of India. Here the latter two go as far as rejecting any other physical form of God, and only worship Agni and offer the various mantras of the Rig Veda to the fire.
This practice is not wrong per say, as Agni is said to be the vehicle between the worshipper and the Devatā. For this reason he carries another name Vahni which stems from the word vhni meaning the conveyor, carrier or bearer (also refer vahana). This is said to be symbolic of the third eye (ajñakhya chakra) where Agni rests, and from which the prayers are transmitted to the Devatā of worship. Hence also, the worship of Agni is essential for the grace of the devatā of worship and as its ultimate purpose gives the worshipper enlightenment through the blessing of Śiva. For this reason the first śloka of the Rig Veda is dedicated to Agni:
अग्निमीळे पुरोहितं यज्ञस्य देवंऋत्विजं। होतरां रत्नधातमम्॥
agnimīḻe purohitaṁ yajñasya devaṁṛtvijaṁ| hotarāṁ ratnadhātamam||
In fact the entire first sukta of the Rg Veda is dedicated purely to Agni, and shows the importance of Agni worship.
In the cosmology Agni is born from Mahāṛṣi Kaśyapa. Astrologically Kaśyapa Gotra is associated with Sūrya and Śani. Sūrya because Kaśyapa is the father of the twelve Adityas and Agni. Śani because is is also the father of all the asuras, daityas and danavas. The latter is also partly the reason why those who do not know their Gotra are asked to take the name of Kaśyapa during certain rituals and rites.
Agni has two wives/śaktis, namely Svāhā and Svadhā who represent the oblations for the deva/Gods and pitri/ancestors respectively. Thus mantras ending in either of these two words specifically refer to the object of the offering being either God or ancestors, i.e. om agnaye svāhā or om pitṛbhyo svadhā are common uses.
Agnikoṇa is a reference to one among the ten directions and here Agni is a Digpala. Digpala litteraly means protector of direction and here specifically refers to Agni as a devatā who rules the south-eastern direction. The Digpala are devatā who rule the directions of karma and their wives are the givers of fruits of these paths or directions. No fruit arises without the blessings of one of these Digpala, or rather their śaktis namely the Digvadhu. Therefore Agni has a very central position in ensuring the fruits of karma.
This role of Agni is closely associated with the latin word Ignis or fire. From this word came the word ingineer, thus reffering to the function of Agni. The south-eastern direction is ruled by Venus and therefore gives rise to people who are great designers or can make great scetches or plans in their mind, and are masters of inventions such as those seen by the Sri Paraśurama Avatara.
Among the planets and luminaries Sun and Mars are associated with fire, where Sun is more closely associated with the light emanating from fire, whilst Mars is specifically referred to as being of the fiery element. For this reason Mars’ placement in the arthatrikona in the dasamsa chart can show engineering as a profession.
Among sounds Agni is associated with the consonant ra and carries significance akin to the Egyptian Sun-God. This is known as a sound of the seers/rishis as the seers are said to be channels/pathways towards God, and here the two paths of moving upwards towards God (ra-fire) or bringing God down to oneself (la-earth) are governed by the rishis. The sound ra is commonly added to the mystic seed/bija mantras, i.e. hrīm, śrīm and krīm (viz. ka+ra+ī+m) are common uses of the same and represent this upwards movement.
Agni is depicted with seven tongues or jihva with which he accepts the offerings people make and transmits them to the Gods. In this form he is known by the name Vahni and is eulogized as he acts as a vehicle between the worshipper and Deva. The seven tongues/jihva symbolize the seven weekdays during which the offering are accepted.
Table 1: Saptajihva bīja
Jihva Bija
hiraṇyā hrūm
gaganā srūmṣ
raktā śrūm
kṛṣṇā vrūm
suprabhā lrūm
bahurūpā rrūm
atiraktā yrūm
The Sanskrit word for weekday is Vāra. The word Vāra is short for the word Vāsara. Vāsa means to stay, abide, dwell in, whilst Ra is a reference to Agni the God of fire much like the Egyptian Sun God. Hence the word Vāsara implies an abode for the God of fire. Similarly, a weekday/Vāra is a resting place for the Agni, and all the functions of the weekdays arise from this principle.
The seven tongues/jihva are name: hiraṇyā, gaganā, raktā, kṛṣṇā, suprabhā, bahurūpā and atiraktā. They each have a bija or monosyllable mantra consisting of the bija yrūm, and prefixed by one of the seven semi-vowels.
These seven tongues have seven sounds associated with them, and are also associated with the five planets and two luminaries.
For Jyotiṣis the Siva Purāṇa gives us eight bīja for the eight directions.
Table 2: Agni bīja
Graha Sound
Sun brūm
Moon drūm
Mars bhrūm
Mercury hrūm
Jupiter stūm
Venus śrūm
Saturn ḍrūm
Rahu prūm
Those who recite the sounds associated with their lagna lord in the chart will gain direction and enlightenment in their life, through the blessings of Agni. The worshipper will be able to digest and thus understand any subject they study due to the blessing. This sound should be recited preferably before lighting the lamp in worship as a symbol of lighting the inner lamp of enlightenment. Recitation of these sounds also gives enormous strength to the physical body, and a very sharp mind.
For those with Aquarius Lagna, they should choose whether to have Rāhu or Saturn as the Lagna lords.
Agni Mantra
Among mantras for Agni simple mantras such as om agnaye namaḥ or om jatavedase namaḥ exist. But a more popular mantra in the traditions of Jyotish is the chaitanya/consciousness mantra, meant to bring superior awareness and consciousness to the individual. It’s also called the navarna mantra as it is nine syllables in length: om hūm rām chaitanyayai namaḥ|
Astrologically, through the traditional principles of mantrakriya, -bhoga and –devatā, we can derive the following from the mantra:
The mantra has five words; therefore this astrologically corresponds to the fifth house and will be the mantra-kriya of the mantra. This means that the mantra will act by using the energy of the fifth house, i.e. intelligence, knowledge, memory, etc. The fruit of this activity is seen from the mantra-bhoga.
The mantra-bhoga is found by counting the number of syllables or akshara. Here there are nine syllables, viz.: om(1) hūm (2) rām (2) chaitanyayai (4) namah (2) = total of nine syllables. Therefore astrologically the energy of the mantra will be spent on ninth house activities, i.e. getting a guru, expanding ones worldview, expanding ones view of God, ensuring fortune, and attaining Vijnana or the higher spiritual knowledge which is associated with diksha and pratibha through which the latter ensures that the native can speak directly with the guru and seers.
The mantra devatā is found by counting the distance from the mantra-kriya house to the mantra-bhoga house, and then counting the same distance there from. This is the manifestation of God in ones life and where the knowledge will arise in ones life.
Example: mantra-kriya is the fifth house; the mantra-bhoga is the ninth, the fifth house there from. Counting to the fifth house from the ninth house we come to the first house and this will be the seat of the mantra-devatā. Here the deity of the mantra will sit on the persons head (first house) and therefore grant enlightenment. The tool of this enlightenment is seen from the bija of the mantra. Here the bija’s om, hūm and ram are the weapons of the devatā, and shows that truth/satya (om), hūm (obstacle removing[1]) and rām (agni/enlightenment).
Mantra upadesa
The scriptures teach to add the bīja’s hūm and rām together to form one bija, namely hrūm (bodhana or causing to awake/have knowledge). But then how can the mantra still be nine syllables? Here the advice of the tradition becomes pertinent. After the newly found hrūm bīja, add one of the eight bīja of ones Lagna lord. This forms a personal Agni mantra.
Example: For Leo Lagna the lord is Sun, and the bija associated with it is: brūm. Therefore the mantra becomes: om hrūm brūm chaitanyayai namaḥ|
This is to be recited whilst lighting the lamp and recited as japa. It grants the practitioner perfect knowledge and enlightenment.
[1] The seed syllable hum, has two forms namely short u hum and long u hūm . Both are well known sounds to worship Ganesha, but are quite different in nature. This is best depicted through their sanskrit depictions as given here:
हुं & हूं - Notice that in the former (हुं or hum) the curve at the bottom moves towards the left, whilst in the latter (हूं or hūm) the curve is to the right. Similarly Ganesha is depicted with either his trunk towards the left and right respectively. If his trunk is to the right (from the viewer) then Ganesh is picking (accepting) laddoos with his trunk and is symbolic of removing all obstacles. When otherwise, i.e. with his trunk towards the left (from the viewer) he is holding weapons and is symbolic of blocking, suppressing evils and protecting the native from all evils. This differentiation is quite important. The image of Ganesha with the trunk to the left is normally kept for the bedroom or such private places where you wouldn’t want others to enter. One example is given of a mother who accidentally put this form on the door of her house and the resultant effect was quarrels with relatives who though had visited regularly suddenly felt unwelcome and excluded.
The longer u is used to remove obstacles and especially anger. One who offers kusa grass with this mantra to the twelve forms of Ganesha is freed from any anger from others. It is also the Mahakala bija and when recited twice ensures perfect memory beyond the borders of time.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:16 am
Namaste Visti-ji,
Very informative. In Vedic Remedies i see that the navarna mantra uses huum instead of hum(damana). Which one is the right one to use hum(short u) or huum(long u).
pranams
November 26th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Dear Sunil, Namaskar.
The ‘u’ with the line over represents a long (dirgha) u. I have written that in the article. This is the romanized way of writing this. If you cannot read that, then ensure that your browser is using the UTF-8 format to read the text.
The website should automatically tell your browser to read it like this, but just in case check under: View->Encoding (could also be called Character encoding) and select UTF-8.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
November 26th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Even after changing the page to UTF-8, I am still seeing some unresolved characters like
kṛṣṇā vyrūm
November 26th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
guru-ji namaskaar,
I see tranliteration ok now.
1. In the final paragraph of your article, you refer to huum(dirgha) as the one for damana. Do both hum (hrsva) and huum (dirgha) both qualify as damana bija?
2. The mundaka upanishad also refers to the seven tongues of agni but has different names - kaLi karaLI manojava dhoomravarNa etc. Does the agnijihva names that you refer to only connected with vAra and hence the difference?
3. Just something i remember - the english word “angel” is derived from greek? or latin? “anggeros/anggelos” meaning messenger and is connected to “angira” of samskrta refering to agni as messenger.
pranams
sunil
November 27th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Vignarajaya Hum
Dear Visti-Ji
As per this article, for Lagna Lord Moon (Cancer Lagna), Agni bija sound should be DROOM.
My Lagna is Cancer,
For me,hence the Mantra should be
om hrūm drūm caitanyayai nama.
Am I right? Kindly advise.
Any specific instruction before this mantra to be recited, please guide.
Pranams & regards
Kumar
November 27th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar.
Sunil
I have made a correction and added an endnote reg. the two different bijas.
Reg. the names given in Mundaka Upanishad, i have studied the words and found the following equivalents:
Kali (black) - Krsna
KarAli (terrible) - Hiranya?
ManojavA (speedy as the mind) - Gagana
Sulohita (very red) - Rakta
Sudhumravarna (thick smokish color) - Atirakta (dhumra is a mixture of red and black also)
Sphulungini (emitting sparks) - Suprabha
Let me know your opinion.
Srini Rajitha
I cannot comment on why you have a problem with display. I have tried seeing the browser in IE 6, 7 and Firefox and with the UTF-8 encoding things look fine, though with some hickups in IE 6. Hope you get your problem solved.
Kumar
Ask for Guru’s grace and then begin the mantra.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
November 28th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
Namaskar Guru-ji,
Vishvaruchi (manifold/spreadout rays) matches with bahurUpA (many forms) as well. Thanks for pointing out.
pranams
sunil
November 30th, 2007 at 5:24 am
Beautiful writeup as usual, Visti. Your explanation of the Ram Bija as the upwards motion to God, and Lam as the downwards motion of God to the devotee immediately conjured up a vision of an exquisite Devi, coming down a ray of light, carrying a golden pot of nectar - Lakshmi in her form of mother Pritvi, as our nourisher. You mentioned how many beejas contain the Ram beeja within them, taking us to God. Similarly, many of the “motherly/compassionate” dieties like Krishna, have beejas with the Lam beejam such as Kleem, Sleem and Dhleem, perhaps indicating their descent to help us.
Thanks also for explaining the two beejas of Ganesha so well. You are right, the form with his trunk to the left (i.e. right for the viewer) is the one often worshipped, referring to his compassionate side, but perhaps it’s because most of us mortals cannot follow the straight and narrow path of the fiery Gyana Ganapati with his trunk to his right.
One question about the Ram beeja. For the Agni beeja, this is the short “a”, correct? You have it here with both the short and the deergha sound. Thanks in advance for the clarification.
Just out of curiousity, you explained the worship of Matangi, and now Agni. Any significance to starting with the King?
Lata
November 30th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Dear Lata, Namaskar.
I’m glad to learn of your experiences. Ra and La are definitely the rishi bijas.
‘r’ is the agnyakshara, but the bija is raam, i.e. long a.
You will notice that everything on this website deals with the Sun in some way or the other… Garuda, Matangi, Agni… Next up is Surya.
Yours sincerely, Visti
December 1st, 2007 at 6:33 am
Vistiji,
I spend an entire week listening to all conference lectures. I would say it was one of my best investment.Your lesson on Bhadakesh was fantastic too.
Rath sir is just phenominal
Regards,
Subbu
December 4th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Visti Ji
What happened to all the recordings of the classes. Have you stopped taking new lessons? I have a problem that I cant read for a long time and my memory is not good when I read something, once I hear it I remember it for ever so Audio Lessons are the best. Are you going to be taking classes again?
Regards
Tarun Garg
December 6th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Dear Visti:
just a small linguistical correction:
1. Ignis is Latin
2. The Greek equivalent is Pyrrhos. (for instance in the word “pyramid” Pyrrhos-in -the middle. (A structure which literally has the sacred fire inside, in the middle region.)
3. One of the correspondents (Sunil) postulates the word “angel” coming from Sanskrit. Although many words in greek have sanskrit roots, this one does’t. It comes from ancient hebrew. If you notice, in all european languages the angel is ending in “EL”, hebrew for “GOD”.(Angel, Engel, Angyal etc.)Moreover,all Angels in the Judeo-Christian traditions have “EL” at the end of their Names as a suffix, such as GabriEL,(Strenght of God) RafaEL,(Healer of God)UriEL,(Light of God) MikaEL(Might of God) etc.(and thousands of others)This is an ancient hewbrew tradition, not sanskrit.Incidentally, Islam imported wholesale all their angels from the ancient Judeo-Christian tradition.But then I suppose that Angels have no copyright laws…
Thanks you for the beautiful writeup.
Arpad Joo
December 6th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Dear Tarun, Namaskar.
You should have asked me this privately as it doesn’t belong here in the discussion on Agni.
We are taking classes but not recording them as of yet. The reason being that we are going through the notes of the Jaimini classes from last summer. We will not record these classes.
Both Agni and Akasha are important to learn Jyotish. Begin the Agni mantras to increase your Agni tatva and therefore the ability to learn through reading.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
December 7th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Dear Arpad,
Thanks! I usually don’t claim sanskrit roots for european words. It is an endless debate. It is best to say they emerge from common roots.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=angel
December 7th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
visti-ji,
What agni mantra could be used to increase mental focus?
pranams
December 9th, 2007 at 5:51 am
Respected Vistiji,
Namaskar.
Does the choosing of lords betweem Rahu and Saturn, depend on their strength as for lagna lordship the for the sake of the agni bija as well?
If lord of Kumbha is Rahu being stronger, lagna lord should the bija then be proom(pardon for the absence of devanagari script)?
Would the mantra still help in learning and enlightenment regardless Rahu being lagna lord?
regards
Nalini
December 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar.
Sunil
Lagna lords Agni mantra is excellent for this.
Nalini
Yes, strength is important. Also see which resultant Arudha will be created from that lagna lord and decide whether you ‘like’ that Arudha.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
December 10th, 2007 at 12:45 am
Respected Visti ji,
Namaskar.
Thank you. The chart I am referring to has Rahu as AK as well as LL and the birth time is not very correct. The birth data: 17th September, 1958, Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, India. Birth time according to the native’s mother was around the time when lamps/lights are lit in the evening but born in Vishaka Nakshatra.I took the time as 18.11, kumbha lagna which seemed to be more apt than Pisces. With Kumbha, Guru 2nd&11th lord is in the 9th,Tula with Rahu and Chandra, lorded by Venus also AL lord..Al is in 4th, with Mangala when Saturn is considered as the lagna lord. Would the agni bija for Saturn be more beneficial than Rahu? Can you please guide?
With Rahu, the AL would be mithuna, 5th and 8th lord, he(native) is also not doing well abroad,a definite fall in position and authority, earnings.An entry level position in advertising in News papers after doing very well in country of birth.
I am confused..
Pranams
Nalini
December 11th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Dear Nalini, Namaskar.
The process of Atma Dipana is difficult, so choosing an Agni mantra for the atmakaraka graha is a tough process. You can choose for Saturn instead then.
If Aquarius is the Lagna then the native has been working from a young age. Is that so? This is due to lagnesh in the tenth house.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
December 12th, 2007 at 4:26 am
[Visti Ji]
A small experince to share:
After reading your article i started the mantra
“om hrum bhrum caitanyayai nama”
as my lagna is scorpio and lagana lord is mars.
but by mistake i understood “caitanyayai” as “katyayani”.So i was chanting it
“om hrum bhrum katyayani nama”
with full devotion.When you uplodaed the papers of last years conferences this weekend. To read the sarbani ji paper
on mantra i was referring the book by sanjay rath last night.
The first page opened was the “AGNI MATRA’s page” and my eyes stopped on one mantra. and back of the mind i thought it is same as in your agni paper. Then i saw its HINDI translation.
then i realized my mistake.
So please clear me on below
1- Is Mother guided me to realaize my mistake ?
2- Should i continue matra “om hrum bhrum katyayani nama”?
3- How to realize or symptons that following “ATAMA deepana” mantra working:
“om hrum bhrum caitanyayai nama”
Please forgive me if i ask anything funny due to my ignorance.
vishal
December 12th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Respected Vistiji,
Namaskar.
The native had started work in a an aluminium factory when he was 15 to supplement family income(even while studying) and full time for 2 years when he failed school. He later finished his graduation& post graduation in Geology and worked in Marketing, Sales in Airconditioners,Decolam manufacturing and finally as GM for a chemical manufacturing company before leaving abroad where he is now working as a sales executive for advertising(space selling) in News papers. If Pisces were to be the lagna would then not the LL being in 8th good for flourishing abroad which is not the case?
After your advise I would think agni mantra for Saturn would be more appropriate.
The native is fair, stocky in build and very good at sports and was champion of school/college and represented his state,I am not attempting to rectify the chart as I am not competent, but would like to know if principles are right?
Can you please guide me?
Pranams
Nalini
December 12th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Dear Vishal and Nalini, Namaskar.
Vishal
Mother has shown you the correct mantra. Now change it to the correct mantra. I cannot say which are the symptoms as i haven’t experienced atma dipana myself.
NaliniI think your right on Aqua lagna, and i also recommend the Saturn mantra. Good work.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
December 13th, 2007 at 3:14 am
Hraum Namah Adityaya
Respected Vistiji,
Namaskar.
Thank you for your guidance. My Lagna Lord is Budha, so agni mantra for atma dipana should be Om Hroom Hroom caitanyayai namaha,
Is that right? Can I start it when Sun transits Dhanus,(Guru is in Dhanus in my D1 and Paka lagnesh) December, 16th(Surya is in 9th in my chart and in uttamamsa).
Pranams
Nalini
December 15th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Dear Nalini, Namaskar.
Your right.
Except, there is no ‘a’ sound at the end of namah.
Agni is best worshiped during Midday, starting from a Sunday. The best time is when no planets are in eighth house; preferably benefics or no planets in fifth; Sun should be in kendra; Moon should be unconjoined.
Good luck.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
December 17th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
Hare Rama Krsna
Hraum Namah Adityaya
Respected Vistiji,
Namaskar.
Thank you very much for your teaching, guidance,
May the Guru bless you to lead many like me out of ignorance
Pranams
Nalini
December 30th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Dear sir
This is not the proper place to ask such question but lot of BEEJAS are explained here. So i ask
IN YOUR SOME REPLIES TO PEOPLE YOU HAVE ASKED TO DO -JEEV NYASA - FOR CERTAIN GEMS.
Will you please explain what is this NYASA?
REGARDS.
SATISH.
December 31st, 2007 at 7:27 am
DEAR SIR
REFER no.9 & 20 in posts, THERE IS REF. OF MATANGI,GARUDA, & COFERENCE PAPERS.
HOW TO TRACE THESE ARTICLES?
REGARDS.
January 2nd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Dear Satish, Namaskar.
Nyasa means to place or insert, i.e. every mantra has a rishi nyasa which is the process of placing the rishi inside the natives body to attain fruits of the mantra.
My conference papers have been published in the Jyotish Digest. To order them contact: http://sagittariuspublications.com/
On this site itself i have written about Matangi and Agni. Garuda is yet to come. You can see the articles here: http://www.srigaruda.com/mantra/
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
January 5th, 2008 at 6:37 am
what is the result of 7th lord in 8th house
suppose 7th lord is moon and it is aspected by retrograde jupiter in second house in capricorn lagna. how the moon will react?
January 10th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Vignarajaya Hoom
Dear Guruji
Kindly tell how Agrni bija for Saturn is spelt. The word is not clear.(-rum, first alphabet could not be read).
Pranam
regards
Kumar
January 10th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Dear Kumar, Namaskar.
It is the mudgara/cerebral ‘d’.
The alphabet should be readable using utf-8 encoding, which many use.
Yours sincerely, Visti
January 11th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Respected Vistiji,
Namaskar.
I started the agnibeeja mantra on 30th December 2007,Sunday.
While most parameters for the Muhurta I could( as advised by you)find, it was the most I could make. However when I attended a Rudrabhiskeham at the local Ganesh temple,on New Year I was blessed with a silver medallion of Lord Ganesha with the trunk to the right feasting on laddoos. I had prayed to Lord Ganapati to give me atma gnana and also jyotish gnana.
My profound heartfelt thanks for making the blessing possible.
Regards
Nalini
January 11th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Vignarajaya Hoom
Dear Guruji
Pranam
Thanks for your reply. But again, Iam confused, since for those with Lagna lord as Moon,you said the Agni Bija is Droom, is it the same for Saturn also? My apologies for misunderstanding your lecture.
Kindly advise.
Pranam
Kumar
January 16th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Dear Nalini and Kumar, Namaskar.
Nalini
Good to hear. Keep up the good work.
Kumar
As i said there are two d’s.
One /d/ occurs when your tongue touches your teeth such as in the word ‘duty’. This is called dental d.
The other occurs when your tongue touches the top of your mouth as in the word ‘door’. This is called cerebral d.
These are known as danta and mudgara respectively.
For Moon you need the dental d, and for Saturn you need the cerebral d.
Hope this clarifies.
Yours sincerely, Visti.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Vignarajaaya Hoom
Dear Guruji
Yes, it is clear to me now, Thank you and God Bless.
Pranams
Kumar
January 18th, 2008 at 6:46 am
OM NAMAHSHIVAAYA
Dear Guru Ji,
Namaskar
1)With reference to Guru Ji’s reply number 24,
–Agni is best worshiped during Midday, starting from a Sunday. The best time is when no planets are in eighth house; preferably benefic or no planets in fifth;— If it is so, this dictum for the starting the mantra will restrict one who has malefics in fifth and some planet (malefic) in eight in jenma kundali, to recite the same.
For example in my jenma kundali i have Mars and Rahu in fifth and Sun (LL) in eighth implies that this agni mantra is not advisable for me– Is it so Guru ji?
2) Is it permissible for ladies to recite this agni mantra or with addition of jala bija.
With respects
Yours Sincerely,
S.dheenadayalan
January 21st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Dear All
Can u please tell which is correct mantra amond below:
OM Hrim grinih surya aditya shrim om
om hrim drhini surya aditya shrim om
i have seen many books which shows different versions ??
plz enlighten me..vistiji your valuable thoughts plz
February 7th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Dear vistiji,
Thank you for this wonderful article. Could you please explain how this mantra works:
Om Hraum Grini Varunaye Namah
I undertand now where the”Hraum” beej comes from and how it works -thanks to your article on Agni. I think that “Grini” is a bija for surya and “Varunaye” is one of the 12 names of surya..i recall a presentation by Sanjayji about the different names of surya associated with the different rasis. Am I on the right track? Thank you for your guidance and teachings. Thank you.
khushee
February 7th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar.
Astroyogi
This is the third place where i’ve seen your question. I hope you got the answer in your other threads. the Beeja is Ghrini. To my knowledge there is no OM in the end of the mantra.
Khushee
Since the name is varuna, the correct mantra for worship is varunaaya and not varunaye. The latter would be correct if his name was varuni.
The beeja ghrini is a chakra-bhedana beeja, i.e. it opens the chakras and purifies them. This beeja is used for cleaning the body of impurities.
Varuna is indeed a name of Surya arising from the Western direction. A very auspicious name for healing.
Hraum is known as the jyotirbeeja. More later.
Yours sincerely, Visti
February 29th, 2008 at 9:46 am
respected sri vistiji ,
i offer due respect at your feet and i want
to tell you that i am selected for the jamini scholar prog. which is about to begin and conducted by srimati sabani rath in new delhi.I continued to follow the path which you showed me early this year and get the result.
Now please clear my confuse regarding agni mantra which you prescribed by you in kritika brata chapter.
you said to japa of this mantra ” om hu-m ra-m chaitanyayai namah.|” it consits of 9 letters ,if i aply the suitability formulla then adding my name aswini 3 letters and then divided by 4 then i get 0 ,so this mantra is ari or not suitable. Is it right.
you also told that every person should recite the graha agni mantra to get true wisdom or open third eye . My lagna lord is saturn ,so its mantra is d.ru-m ( द्।रु-म्).so in this manner can i apply to this mantra “ओम् हु-म् र-म् चैतन्ययै नमह्।।” and change the bijja with d.ru-m ( द्।रु-म्). CAN IT BE POSSIBLE ???
WHETHER THE FULL MANTRA CAN BE MODIFIED TO GET WISDOM ???????
IF POSSIBLE THEN HOW CAN I MODIFIED??????/
IS THIS TYPE ” 1. ओम् द्।रु-म् र-म् चैतन्ययै नमह्।।”
“2. ओम् हु-म् द्।रु-म् चैतन्ययै नमह्।।”
IN THIS MANNER OR ANYOTHER MANNER???????
IF I ADD ONE SYLLABE THEN MANTA BECOMES TEN SYLABE AND IT WILL ACCEPTABE AND ALSO CONTAINS FIVE WORDS, THE FIFTH HOUSE.
or this can be combined with sun’s bija “ghrini ”
I WANT COMBINE THIS THREE MANTRAS INTO ONE MANTRA.
OR WHAT WIIL BE THE RIGHT MANTRA FOR ME??
MY BIRTH DATA IS 13octber 1980 at 1:21 pm noon at jagatsingpur orissa india.
please solve my confusion and show me the path by which i can get real wisdom.
Yours faithfully
aswinikumar mohapatra
March 1st, 2008 at 8:10 am
respected sri vistiji ,
i offer due respect at your feet and i want to ask you anaother bthing that i have currently going through aquarious narayana dasa.
Due to the startin of dasa from seventh house ,the dasa lagna should assume and counted from leo sign.so i feel the leo narayana dasa result.CAN I WORSHIP THE MATANGI FORM IN THIS FORM ???????/
IF YES WHICH FORM AND WHICH MANNER ????/
MY BIRTH DATA IS 13octber 1980 at 1:21 pm noon at jagatsingpur orissa india.
yours faithfully
aswini kumar
March 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Dear Aswini Kumar, Namaskar
I had to delete two of your posts as you had sent your post 3 times! This seems to be a repeated trend with you. Please make it easy for me to answer your posts.
The Agni mantra is prasiddha, so theres no problem in suitability with your chart. Do not change it and only apply what has been given in this writeup. The reason it is prasiddha is because the Mantra devata is in the lagna which is the NATURAL seat of Agni.
Why do you need a remedy? Is there a problem?
Yours sincerely, Visti
March 2nd, 2008 at 4:54 am
Dear Vistiji,
For /om namah shivaya/ mantra devata stands in the ninth bhava which is house of Vishnu and this mantra is also prasiddha..so the rule you mentioned dont work in opposite way?
Regards
Rafal Gendarz
March 3rd, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Dear Rafal, Namaskar
You are wrong. The Ishana Shadakshari isn’t Prasiddha. Shiva Purana says this very clearly. Its the Panchakshari (the one without OM) that is prasiddha. Trust me it works.
Yours sincerely, Visti
March 3rd, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Dear Vistiji,
Can you provide in which sloka it says its prasiddha?
What is the other non-jyotish method/source to know which mantras are prasiddha?
Regards
Rafal Gendarz
March 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Dear Rafal, Namaskar
Vidyesvara Samhita, Chapter 11, slokas 39-42 explains this.
Sloka 40 says this:
praNavenaadisaMyuktaM braahmaNaanaaM vishiSyate.
dIkSaayuktaM gurorgrahyaM mantraM hyatha phalaaptaye..40..
Pranava enjoined the mantra (panchakshara is referred to in sloka 39) should be done by the Brahmanas, and to get the phala/fruit of this mantra one should receive diksha(initiation) from a Guru.
Comment: It is advised in the Purana for ALL to recite ‘AUM’ for worship of the Shiva Linga, and ‘namah shivaaya’ for worship of the image of Shiva. But, distinctly it is here advised that AUM should be ADDED to the panchakshari if one is a Brahmana, and the fruits of this will come from Guru diksha. So one can infer that the panchakshari mantra is prasiddha, or doesn’t require Diksha.
Rafal, the counting of words and aksharas is the means to establish if a mantra is prasiddha or not. But, there is more to this, as despite a mantra having the mantradevata in the appropriate bhava, some may replace parts of the mantra with bijas which require initiation.
Example: There are two Vyasa astakshari mantras:
i) vyAM vyAsadevAya namaH|
ii) vyAM vedavyAsAya namaH|
Both have three words (mantrakriya = 3rd), eight aksharas (mantrabhoga = 8th) and the Mantradevata falls in the first house. First house is the seat of Narayana which Vyasa is an amsa-avatara of. So both are alike but now see the words used in the mantra.
In mantra #i the bija ‘vyAM’ is the bija of the name ‘vyAsa’.
In mantra #ii the bija ‘vyAM’ is NOT the bija of the name ‘vedavyAsa’. Therefore mantra #ii is NOT prasiddha and one requires initiation of this mantra.
Your next question should be: how to find the nama bija?
Name: Rafal. ‘ra’ is the first syllable and ‘fa’ is the second one. ‘fa’ belongs to the tatva of Agni, and among the vowels/svaras the i-akshara is Agni (a,i,u,e,o). Short vowels are ‘laghu’ and long vowels are ‘guru’. Gurvakshara gives mukti. The long ‘ii’ is therefore added to the first syllable and ended by the anusvara (M), viz.: r+ii+M. So your bija is ‘riiM’. The namabija gives mukti from the cause of rebirth… Agni was the vowel which created you and its dirgha or longer vowel will give mukti from the same.
Can you do the same with my name ‘visti’? The second akshara is ‘i’. Which tatva brought me here?
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
March 4th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Dear Visti and Rafal,
This is interesting and deep, but in VRA (pg 118) “Om Namah Shivaya” is listed under mantras exempt from tests (of suitability) - what should we infer from here?
Also, in the following link for Opening Lecture of Vyasa SJC California, “Om Namah Shivaya” is being referred to as Prasiddha Mantra.
Quote:
“The other prasiddha mantras are like “Om Namah Shivaya,” “ Om Vishnave Namah.” These are prasiddha; you do not need anybody to give you this mantra; of course if you can get a diksha there’s nothing like it. But it is advised that you start doing it. ”
Reference Link:
http://www.shrifreedom.com/VyasaSJC/OpeningLecture.htm
That does make all this a bit confusing!
Best Regards,
SS
March 4th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Dear SS, Namaskar
Shiva Purana isn’t wrong, and whilst in the lecture and book you refer to its said that the shadakshari is prasiddha, on a separate occasion Sanjayji has distinctly said the opposite. Its a common and easy mistake to make, to the extent where one translator of the Shiva Purana has even said that the panchakshari mantra is ‘om namah shivaaya’ giving a wrong idea of his math skills, but it should be said that by reciting the Shadakshari stotra into a bowl of ghee during the full moon and seeing its reflection in the ghee one can get diksha of the mantra.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
March 4th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Dear Visti,
I can’t agree better. Infact, in a thread on Rohinaa (Rafal’s site), we had a discussion about the Atmalingas as derived from Shiva Purana - but 2 variants seem to exist in 2 different Samhitas.
http://rohinaa.com/index.php/2007/12/13/ishta-devata/#comment-866
and
http://rohinaa.com/index.php/2007/12/13/ishta-devata/#comment-848
May be u can add your comment in your thread (here or whichever u consider appropriate).
In the method of diksha u mention in the above message, the (Shadakshari) “Stotram” (starting from Omkara Bindu Samyuktam…) has to be recited to recieve diksha for the “Mantra”? (wanted to be sure).
Many thanx
SS
March 5th, 2008 at 11:28 am
om narasimhaya namah
Dear Vistiji,
Its agni tattva due to ‘i’.
Regards
Rafal Gendarz
March 5th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
hello sir
does reciting the panchakshari mantra for shiva incur his anger for someone with libra ascendant as pisces is in 6th house with jupiter in the 5th house? would it be the same thing for libra ascendant with ‘om namah shivay’ mantra as well?
thanks a lot
March 5th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Dear Visti,
I can’t agree better. Infact, in a thread on Rohinaa (Rafal’s site), we had a discussion about the Atmalingas as derived from Shiva Purana - but 2 variants seem to exist in 2 different Samhitas.
From the Shatarudra Samhita (of Shiva Purana) that i quote below:
“SharvoBhavastathaa Rudra Ugrobheemaha Pashopatihi
Eeshaanashcha Mahadevo Moortyschaashtvishrutaaha II3II
BhoomyAmbho_AgniMarudhVyomaKsheytragyarkNishaakaraha I
Adhishtascha Sharvaadyayaashtaroopayi Shivasya hi II 4 II”
Sharva ~ Bhoomi (Earth/Prithvi)
Bhava ~ Ambu (Water / Jala)
Rudra ~ Agni (Fire/Agni)
Ugra ~ Marut (Vayu / Air)
Bheema ~ Vyoma (Akaasha)
Pashupati ~ Kshetragya (Knower of the field)
Eeshana ~ Arka (Sun)
Mahadeva ~ Nishaakara (Moon)
While the other one in the Vayaviya Samhita which i quote below:
ShivPurana – Vayaveeya Samhita, Poorvakhanda: Adhyaya 12
“Namaste Bhagwan Rudra Bhaskaraamita_tejasey
Namo Bhavaya devaya rasaambumayaatmane
Sharvaaya Kshitiroopaya Nandisurabhaye namah II 41II
Eeshaaya vasave tubhyam Namas_sparshmayaatmane
Pashunaam Pataye Chaiv Paavakaayatitejase
Bheemaya Vyomaroopaya Shabdmaatraaya te Namah II42II
Ugraayograsvaroopaya Yajamaanatmane Namah
Mahaadevaya Somaaya Namostavamritmoortaye II43II”
Rudra = Bhaskara = Sun
Bhava = rasa = taste (~ Jala/Water)
Sharva = kshiti = Earth/Prithvi
Eeshana = sparsha = touch (~ Vayu/Air)
Pashupati = Paavaka = (Agni/Fire)
Bheema = Vyoma, shabda = Aakasha, sound
Ugra = Yajamaana (overseer of the yagya)
Mahadeva = Soma = Moon
Between the 2:
Bhava, Sharva, Bheema and Mahadeva remain same,
but the other 4 vary.
Elsewhere, in other puranas (?Markandeya, Brahmanda), Rudra is signified as Su, who with His Shakti Suvarchala produced Shani, while Mahadeva (~Mo) with Rohini produced Buddha (Mer), Bhava (~ water) with Usa/Dhatri produced Shukra (Ve) etc. However, in this classification, the progeny includes only 4 grahas (Sa, Ve, Ma, Me) and rest are Manojava, Skanda, Svarga, Santana - which i dont understand if they have any correspondence within the 8-charakaraka scheme.
May be u can add your comment in your thread (here or whichever u consider appropriate).
In the method of diksha u mention in the above message, the (Shadakshari) “Stotram” (starting from Omkara Bindu Samyuktam…) has to be recited to recieve diksha for the “Mantra”? (wanted to be sure).
Many thanx
SS
March 6th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar
Rafal
Yes.
Rishabh
If sixth lord is in the fifth house it can be difficult to recite the panchakshari (namah shivaaya). Not so with the Shadakshari.
SS
Yes thats the right stotra.
The reason there is a difference is ingrained in the concept of all Devatas. Shiva states the use of the Ashta-murti for removing bandhana earlier, and this is the list we must apply for worship. Brahma then later worship the Ashta-murti and describes their forms, and is what you have given.
Why the difference? Answer: Worship is performed to remove the negatives of a particular aspect of our life. I.e. for Venus problems we are required to worship Mother Lakshmi. But in that we refer to Lakshmi as a mother it means we are refferring to the Moon aren’t we? So in this case we are purifying Venus who is always caught up in the pursuint of the best possible partners in life and making him (kamadevata) settle down and get married. So the true form of Sri Lakshmi is one of the Moon, but she removes the doshas of Venus.
This also becomes very apparent when we look towards the mahavidyas, i.e. how is it that the Mother depicted without a head (Chinnamasta) doesn’t correspond to the headless Ketu but instead to Rahu? And how did the widow (Dhoomavati) become Ketu instead of Rahu who normally indicates a widow?
I hope this settles your confusion. This is applicable to ALL lists of Devatas and Grahas.
As for Rudra, this is not the same as Shiva. Many club them together but this is not so. So this is a completely different area of study. Note that Rudra is Brahma’s son, Shiva is not.
Hope this helps.
Yours sincerely, Visti Larsen
March 6th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Dear Visti,
Yes, I think (we know) one needs to look beyond the obvious to make sense of it all and fit it into Reality. It is easy to get confused, as u put it earlier.
I do understand the part where Brahma created Rudra to give rise to Creation (and the rest of the story), however, in Shiva Purana, the description of 11 Rudras that is given, doesn’t indicate Hanuman as the 11th Rudra - though many say that He is so!
(Besides, what 11 Rudras signify wrt the Creation - viz, the 10 pranas and Maheshwara is another direction of discussion).
The Ashta-murti of Shiva description is followed by sloka 15-17 (Shatarudra Samhita) that indicate how the human seemingly gets entangled in the 8 bandhanas – however, i was confused with why the different description was given later on - but then, again, the lesson is to look beyond the obvious - thanx for discussing it out. Else, in the Kailash Samhita of Shiva Purana, Paramatman_Shiva is also referred to by 8 names (incidentally 8?) among which one is “Vishnu” (others being Shiva, Maheshvara, Rudra, Pitamaha, Samsara Vaidya; Sarvatra, Paramatman); while earlier in the Shiva Purana we find listed the Shiva Sahasranama given by “Vishnu” (!).
The situation, if very crudely put, is like describing various components of milk (following churning or any kinda treatment of milk and calling them cheese, ghee, curd etc.) but then finally understanding that all this is but milk appearing in various forms; as elsewhere in Shiva Purana, it is mentioned that Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, Maheshwara, Sadashiva are but forms of Shankara (while eliciting the Advaita Gyana).
The idea, again, is to look beyond the obvious; else one doesn’t get to understand why in the Mahishasuramardini Stotram, The Mother is referred to as “Vishnu-vilaasini” at one place and as “Shankara-toshini” at another.
Anyways, this can go on and on! But the discussion did help me rethink over why “Ksham” is the beeja used for Ra (wrt Atmalinga, as remover of poison @ Garuda beeja), when elsewhere (Gandharva Tantra – Graha Nyasa) beeja Ham is ascribed to Rahu and Ksham to Ketu.
Hoping to figure out why Sam and Sham are used for Su and Mo wrt Atmalinga mantras (something to do with the Varnamala?), since elsewhere, Sham is used as beeja for Shani.
Best Regards,
SS
March 7th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
hello sir
is it difficult or not advisable? is it true that giving someone the remedy for the 6th house issues means that one sixth of ripu would have to be faced by the guru giving the mantra or the remedy?
thanks a lot
Rishabh
March 11th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar
SS
Hanuman is a Rudra… one of the 44.000 Rudras. Essentially he is a form of one of the main 11 Rudras. The Rudras hold the creation in place and when they leave so does one aspect of creation. Hence in a chart there are 11 Rudras and one of these causes the Soul to leave and will be Mahesvara for you. There are 11 Rudras and 1 Brahma, hence the equation of 11+1=12.
Study the semivowels and their link to the Moon to understand the beejas for the atmalinga.
Rishabh
Its difficult and not advisable.
As for six syllable mantras, there is no problem if the mantra is Prasiddha, just like Hare Rama Krishna| or Om Vishnave Namah|
Yours sincerely, Visti
March 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Dear Visti,
Can you please indicate the reference where Hanuman is listed among 11 main Rudras (cudnt find that in Shiva Purana).
Thanx for the hint wrt beejas.
Best Regards,
SS
March 12th, 2008 at 6:51 am
…contd. from above…
While performing Sri Rudram, is the an offering made to Hanumanji as one of the 11 main Rudras?
Also, of 11 Rudras, 1 is Maheshvara, is there any jyotisha definition of Hanuman (as there is for Maheshvara)?
Best Regards,
SS
March 12th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Hi Visti,
Excellent write up! Very informative. I have a question regarding mantras. You have mentioned vyam vyasdevayah nama is a prasiddha mantra as the devata sits in lagna, the house of vishnu and vyas deva is amsa of vishnu. Now if we add om vyam vasdevayah nama then the mantra becomes 4 words and 9 syllables and teh mantra debata sits in second house. Now second is also the house of the food we eat, if we use that logic, hence it sustains us, hence Vishnu would sit here (infact Vishnu is sarva vyapi. he can sit anywhere!).. then why is this not a prasiddha mantra..
Again if a certain mantra promises a certain thing like in many different mantra, the how does the indication of the mantra change or interact with the houses of mantra kriya and bhoga..
-Regards
Rajarshi
March 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Dear Members, Namaskar
SS
Mahesvara is one of the 11 Rudras, which means one of the 11 rudras takes on the act of liberating the soul. Hanuman is a Rudra but is an incarnation of one of the 11 Rudras. The reference to him being an incarnation of Rudra is in the Ramayana, but it doesn’t speak of which Rudra.
Rajarshi
Second house is the house of Hari whilst Lagna is Narayana. The difference in names is not abitrary and Vyasa would normally not sit in this house.
The mantra bhoga shows the fruit/promiss of the mantra.
Yours sincerely, Visti.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Hi Visti,
I dont undrstand the difference between Hari and Narayan. Now if we make this kind of distingtion then Krishna is different from Vishnu or Hari or Narayan and in the Gita Krishna says he is ved-vyas. So vyas should ideally not sit even in fist house since it is Narayan’s house and not Krishnas?
-Regards
Rajarshi
March 13th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Dear Visti,
Just a few doubts.
1. Will you please elaborate on Hanumanji as Rudra avatar. Scriptual references, if any ?
2. Please confirm the agni mantra for Gemini lagna as Om hrum hrum chaitanyai namah (hrum is repeated 2 times, isn’t it ?).
Thanks,
Vijay Kumar
March 13th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Dear Visti,
In Tulisdas-krta Hanuman Chalisa, Hanumanji is referred to as Shankara-suvana (Son of Shiva), Kesari-nandan and Pavan-tanay.
(of course u wud be aware of the story of His birth to Kesari and Anjana following prayers by Anjana to Shiva, via Vayu deva - who dropped the pudding - or is that an alleged allegory - to Anjana).
As u mentioned earlier, Rudra is sometimes considered synonymous with Shiva, hence may be over a period of time Hanuman must have come to be referred to as Rudra-avatara or whichever (11th?) Rudra - however, at best He seems to be Ansha-avatara of Shiva, as were Shvetamuni, Rishabhadeva, Durvasa, Ashvathhama (the 4latter being described in ShivaPurana).
And if He represents the “prana vayu” (as ‘they’ say), then He can be considered as one of the 11 Rudras (viz. those representing the 10 vayus in human body and the soul that leaves the bosy at death) - dunno what u’d have to say about that.
Btw, in Shatarudra Samhita, Shiva is also referred to as Rudra-deva!
Anywyas, this can go on and on - but thanx for all the discussion.
March 13th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
forgot to mention above: Parasara Samhita wud take the discussion over Hanuman in another direction altogether.
Many thanx again.
Best Regards,
SS
March 17th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Dear Members, Namaskar
Rajarshi
For spiritual purposes its good to see everything as one, but Jyotishis must see the difference. If Krishna said that he is also Rama and Brhaspati, then what sort of discernment are you going to make in a chart then? Your example is therefore very much taken out of context.
Veda Vyasa is an avatara of Narayana as Vyasa clearly has indicated in the Mahabharata, so therefore the Narayana-bhava should be the point of reference for Vyasa mantra.
Now what does that mean, because he said he is not a Vishnu Avatara? Did you know that Vishnu is one of the twelve sons of Aditi? Its clearly indicated in the Puranas, and also that Vishnu conquered the world previously ruled by Indra and would take birth repeatedly to establish dharma and give mukti to all souls. This certainly speaks very highly of the greatness of Vishnu and makes him all worshippable. This is the ‘avatara’ form. The Krishna that most Vaishnavas worship is not this Vishnu-avatara form but the six-armed Krishna depicted with the flute and kamadhenu who holds a completely different task. People who don’t know this just club everything together as one Vishnu, which is a very easy mistake to make and does give rise to all sorts of name-conflicts, which i do not wish to invite here.
Vijay
I think the Mahabharata has the reference which most people qoute.
The mantra is right… yes two times.
SS
Your on the right track, study the Maruts and the Rudras and see their similarities.
Yours sincerely, Visti
March 18th, 2008 at 6:46 am
OM NAMAH SHIVAAYA
Dear Guru Ji, Namaskar.
So much we are astounded to know about
“the ‘avatara’ form. The Krishna that most Vaishnavas worship is not this Vishnu-avatara form but the six-armed Krishna depicted with the flute and kamadhenu who holds a completely different task. People who don’t know this just club everything together as one Vishnu, which is a very easy mistake to make and does give rise to all sorts of name-conflicts, which i do not wish to invite here”
Kindly help us by providing more information or reference for our further reading and understanding please.
With respects.
Yours Sincerely,
s.dheenadayalan
March 18th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Dear Visti,
So, if Maruts (~ Rudras @ rigveda) are sons of Rudra (@ Rigveda) it’s no wonder that Hanuman down the timeline been called MAruti and mentioned as(?amsha)avatara of Rudra/Shiva.
So may be He is not actually the 11th Rudra, but an (?11th?) avatara (?ansha) of Rudra (~Shiva).
It is interesting to see observe that Yajurveda describes Rudra as fierce form of Shiva that needs to be appeased.
Also interesting is to see the nature of Mitra, Aryaman, Parjanya etc. (~ 12 adityas elsewhere) as mentioned in Rigveda.
Best Regards,
SS
March 18th, 2008 at 9:09 am
contd. from above…
But the ‘Kumara’ of the Shatapatha Brahman (Sukla YV), who was given the additoional names of “Rudra”, Sarva, Bhava, Ugra, Asani, Pasupati, Mahadeva, Isana (equivalent to the astamurti Shiva of Shiva Purana); is referred to as the 9th tongue of Agni.
so if Rudra was a byproduct of Prajapati (?Brahma) and Ushas (@ Satapatha Brahmana of Sukl YV), then Who (?Shiva of the 8 forms) was it that punished Brahma for the act and became the Kapalika!
Seems like a never ending spiral.
Best Regards,
SS
March 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
…but looking beyond the obvious, it (as in SPB of Sukl YV, Book III) indicates how tattvas were created from interaction of Time and Space.
And all the above also indicates why Rudra is referred as equivalent to Agni when it comes to tattvas and hence Mars and Shiva is ~ Agni~Sun when it comes to planets per se.
One thing for sure, what is in those texts can’t simply be taken at face value.
March 19th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Dear Visti,
I understand the your point that in terms of jyotish these have to be differenciated unlike in sadhana.
But this is the big question. How is the differenciation going to be made? If we take the shastras and decide on this then there can be many conflicts that arise. As you rightly said Krishna also mentions that he is Rama as well as Brihaspati among many other things. Vishnu as per the scriptures (if we take a literal interpretation) is the son of Aditi in the vamana avatara in the vishnu puran. I have not yet had the good fortune of meeting any real vaishnavas, so I am surprised to hear that they worship the six armed form of krishna.
The Tantrarajatantra mentions Lalita taking the form of Krishna with six bhavas as well as six hands indicating the six senses in order to entices women. If you are referring to some other shatra it would be great if you can provide the references. Will try and read the same. Because the tantrarajatantra does not say this krishna has a diffrent function from the krishna of mahabharata. All it does is gives a different story for the origin of krishna.
Similarly if we read the various shastras litrally we often find contradictions on the surface. The shiva texts describe Shiva as the highest where as the vaisnava texts dscribe vishnu as the highest just as the devi bhagwatam says nothing is beyonf the devi. So if we try to apply the texts literally and use our limited logic to find sense out of it, we will keep moving in endless circles depleting our mental energies and achiving no results. Because again if just logic is used, then Narayana whos name comes from nara and ayana (movement) should also be in the 9th house. The movement of the soul or the necessary guidance comes from narayana. And lord Shiva of course is the adi guru so naturally ninth house. But I guess tehse interpretations will never be able to get to the truth behind the apparent contradictions of the shastras because they are not ment to be understood by logic which again is a fundamental construct and hence a limitation of our average human mind. Only the really spiritually advanced can probably can go behind the scene and understand in depth every meanign, every story.
Anyway I wish the Adi Guru blesses us all with real understanding and knowledge.
-Regards
Rajarshi
March 22nd, 2008 at 8:42 am
Happy holi to everyone!
March 25th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Visti Guruji
pranam
very informative & nice article.
thanks for giving us such a great knowledge.
thanks